‘I Got A Call Saying, What’s This? All Of Gujarat Is Sleeping?

‘I Got A Call Saying, What’s This? All Of Gujarat Is Sleeping?

Transcript: RAMESH DAVE

Spurred on by Modi’s statement in Godhra, Dave and other VHP men set about picking out targets and killing them one by one

Dave: Whatever happened [at Godhra], happened for the best… And, in any case, Rajendrabhai [Vyas] was in charge of the Godhra case…

TEHELKA: He was the incharge of the train…yes…

Dave: I was with him too as the deputy incharge…

TEHELKA: Were you on the train? Dave: No, I didn’t go… I am a diabetic and so I stayed back… Then around 9.30, I got a call from there, informing me of what had happened…

TEHELKA: Rajendrabhai called you up?

Dave: Rajendrabhai called up… he asked me what now… I said don’t worry… I will reach Godhra by 12 o’clock… Then he said there was no need to come to Godhra… some other people were already on their way… but the situation was out of control there and it had to be handled… I told him not to worry… and then he started crying… Rajendrabhai… he said 60 of our people had died… that we were playing a one-day…

TEHELKA: He told me that too…

Dave: One day khelna hai… 600 ko… maine bola koi tension mat lo, bhagwan ki kripa hai, ho jayega jo bhi hone wala hai… phir yahan laashein wagairah laayi… Phir main bhi raat ko gaya… drishya dekh kar bada… [We have to play a one-day… 600 have to be… I told him not to worry, whatever has to be done will be done by God’s grace… later on, the dead were brought here… I also went there that night… the scene was…

TEHELKA: I saw the pictures… in the Vishwa Hindu Parishad office…

Dave: In the office… We went to the office at night… the atmosphere there was very disturbing… everybody had the same reaction… what all of them felt was that [we had taken it] for so many years… Narendrabhai gave us great support at that time…

TEHELKA: What was Narendra Modi’s reaction when he reached Godhra and when he returned?

Dave: In Godhra, he gave a very strong statement… He himself was in a rage… after all, he has been a swayamsevak with the Sangh right from childhood…his anger was such… he himself did not come out into the open then but the police and all had turned totally ineffective at that time… The next day, we took out a funeral procession for the dead at 10.30… from the VHP office… these are things that have never been told… What actually happened was that I got a call at around quarter to eleven saying Rameshbhai what is this… all of Gujarat is sleeping… what is to be done… doesn’t matter… you will get a reaction from my side right now… At quarter to eleven, we went to a spot there… There a shootout took place… from there the whole of Gujarat caught on… but the spot [where it started] was Dariyapur…• • •

Dave: This is Kandhariapur… Hindus are gradually decreasing here… Muslims are more in number…

TEHELKA: They are increasing…

Dave: This is our border… All the area behind this house is his [Abdul Latif ’s]… At the time of the Godhra massacre, rioting started here at around 11 o’clock… We fought here till the next 11 o’clock…

TEHELKA: Was there firing from their side too?Dave: They did not… This time, everyone was on the Hindus’ side… At that time, I was given charge of Madhopura… It is very nearby… there were almost 123 riot-related cases there… Of these, around 15 were under Section 302… you understand this… What happened was, we targeted and killed all those who had been in our sights for the past 20-25 years…• • •Dave: We showed the horrific video we had shot [at Godhra] to people… What happens is… there’s a certain fury… A dormant volcano erupted all of a sudden… Those people did suffer a lot of damage… Our plan was to burn Godhra down to the ground… to burn all these Musalman-wusalmans… but then, to get everyone together here… to handle the situation…

TEHELKA: And all the VVIPs had also started visiting by then… Was there retaliation in Kalupur?

Dave: Yes we took revenge… to a great extent… meaning zabardast.

TEHELKA: How many were killed?

Dave: Now approximately, here in the interiors, I’d say only around 60-70… But the kind of revenge there was… What these people did in Kalupur and Dariyapur… they have three areas… four areas… Juhapura, Shahpur, Dariyapur and Kalupur… What they would do is they’d riot all over the place, and then they would sneak back here to hide…• • •

TEHELKA: I had such an open conversation that Hareshbhai told me… Hareshbhai Bhatt’s factory… how bombs were made in his cracker factory…

Dave: Yes they were made… here then… If we weren’t here, we would be outside… Ghanshyam Patel used to call up people and control everything...

TEHELKA: So when the riots started in Dariyapur and Kalupur, did you people have any weapons or not?

Dave: Some had already come…

TEHELKA: But Hindus don’t keep weapons…

Dave: They don’t have weapons, but our brother got us revolvers and that’s how we would get by… and this is not the age of swords, anyway… So that is all one wants for weapons…

TEHELKA: So how many did he get? Two or three… the stand wala?

Dave: No, they were about 8 or 10• • •

TEHELKA: Can I meet our activists [from the Sangh] who had been jailed but are now released? Just one or two?

Dave: There was one by the name of Yogi… Have you met Harshadbhai… Harshadbhai Giletwala?

TEHELKA: Not yet, Rajendrabhai gave me his name a while ago… but I haven’t met him yet…

Dave: He got burnt in that case… while setting that hotel on fire… He had 75 percent burns…

TEHELKA: Which hotel? Best Bakery is in Baroda…

Dave: No, no, it’s this one…

Dave’s wife: It was a Muslim hotel…

TEHELKA: Was it in Kalupur?

Dave: No no… it is on that side, near Narayan Pura…

TEHELKA: Were some Muslims also killed?

Dave: One died…

TEHELKA: So Harshadbhai sustained 75 percent burns…

Dave: If you meet him now, he looks just the same… He sustained 75 percent injuries… it wasn’t easy saving him… the mrityunjay was chanted one lakh twenty five thousand times… Rs 4-5 lakh were also spent…

TEHELKA: Can I meet someone other than him… Can I meet the person who runs the stand?

Dave: No, he is out of town somewhere… And he won’t talk about it all now… Actually… like he told me, in his business, he has to deal with both Hindus and Muslims…

TEHELKA: Was an FIR lodged against him?

Dave: It was lodged before the riots… It was in a case of the murder of a Muslim, in which he was arrested…

TEHELKA: No, after Godhra…

Dave: No… Not after Godhra… The main ones here… what happened was that nobody fought here… they used to go away from this place… all the bootleggers from Dariyapur and Kalupur used to go elsewhere to fight…

TEHELKA: What was the strategy followed? Was there a fixed strategy or was it like a sort of hit-and run?

Dave: No, the strategy was that the main ones…

TEHELKA: The ones who used to harass… the goons…

Dave: They were the ones in particular whom we had to put straight… This goes on even today…

TEHELKA: Like who? Can I get some names?

Dave: I don’t remember the names of those Muslims… but the ones who were there… they were handpicked and killed one by one. There was one Katki in Madhopura… whenever a riot took place, he was the first to come out… That day we targeted him and killed him. There were two advantages to that… it boosted the morale of the Hindus… and damaged the morale of the Muslims…• • •

TEHELKA: Did the Vishwa Hindu Parishad have any meeting the day Godhra happened? Was any strategy planned? Some common strategy must have been made by you people?

Dave: No, it happened but… At that time, the atmosphere was also very volatile… It could have been used for the sangathan… the sangathan has grown because of that… there was a time when…

TEHELKA: No, like the Godhra massacre happened on the 27th… did our leaders, who were there in Ahmedabad that day, get in touch with each other and plan out some strategy?
Dave: It happened…

TEHELKA: Or was it that they couldn’t meet because of the curfew…

Dave: No even if curfew is imposed nowadays, we can go out… There are lanes that let you do that… and even if there aren’t any such, we set out on the roads themselves. Meetings did happen… eight to ten meetings at various places… The strategy was that since we had to take revenge, we should show them at one go and then there would be peace for the next ten or so years…

Thanks to: http://www.tehelka.com/